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Wubble's Health Thread


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#1 tinypixie

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Posted 16 April 2012 - 08:49 AM

Okay well by now some of you have been introduced to my new cutie-pie Wubble http://hamsterhideou...showtopic=68886

Anyway.. to pick the story up where I left it, I decided the post belongs in here.

I urine tested Wubby on Day 1 and much to my astonishment, I saw this:

Posted Image

That means, the highest reading of glucose (brown), and a pretty high reading of ketones (rose red).

She was easy to test because she immediately drank water when I put her in her house, and then I scooped her up and tested her. She peed right away :/ Also, she would just kind of sleep under her water bottle.

So, I knew that I would have to test her daily. So, yesterday, Day 2, I tested her again, and got this (I tested her about 4 separate times yesterday and it was consistently like this):

Posted Image

That is low glucose (but still present) and trace amounts if not zero ketones. Uhhhhh... and she wasn't sleeping under the bottle anymore.

So day 1 I got high glucose medium ketones, and day 2 I got low glucose and no ketones.

Today is day 3.. and Wubble drinks water... but when I catch her and put her in a container to pee test, she just.. doesn't pee! For half an hour I leave her in there, even after a large water drink, and she does not pee! And I checked her underside for wetness, thinking her chub might have absorbed the pee. But nope, bone dry.

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As the days go by, of course I will continually test her, if possible. But I can't get a reading so far today because she just won't urinate! :/

Is this a good thing? That she won't pee?

Is it at all possible that with her being young, the diet change alone stopped the glucose and ketone output in the urine?

I'm just trying to figure out why such a change in test from day 1 to day 2.. and the change in behavior (from her peeing all over the place to her not peeing for half an hour after a drink)

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More questions. Let's say her glucose tests high again and her ketones test high again.

What dietary needs will she have? Do I do 50/50 water and pedalyte?

What medicines (if any) should I put her on? I was confused after reading a couple articles and websites about the difference between High glucose no ketones, and High glucose High ketones. One website said, if both ketones and glucose are high, go on hypoglycemics and add more protein, but then the same website said if high glucose and no ketones, put them on glipizide. Isn't glipizide a hypoglycemic? uhh so confused.

Any clarification would be very helpful because I want to be able to hit the ground running if I test her and the ketones and high glucose show up again. Let's hope not.. let's hope that the new food alone reversed that stuff.. but honestly it seems highly unlikely to me!

Thanks in advance for any help for my little Wubble!

Edited by tinypixiexoxo, 20 April 2012 - 12:21 PM.





#2 malloria

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Posted 16 April 2012 - 11:58 AM

The scientist here thinks you need a few more days of data before you can draw conclusions! But the second testing is hopeful. I remember reading websites too and being confused by the info. As I recall, "hypoglycemic" as described in them refers to foods like fenugreek.

Frasier was a prolific pee-er and there were times that I too couldn't get a sample from him. Here's what made life easier--an accidental discovery. In the hot summertime I put a glass jar in his cage as a cool refuge, and he started using it as a potty, which so long as he didn't kick bedding into it gave me a way to sample his urine. Worth a try--I used a jelly-size canning jar, but Ethel peed in a mug.

Note that he had high ketones and no glucose, so this is as far as my advice goes. I can't comment from experience on having a diabetic ham.

Good luck! Keep us posted--your tales have been wonderful as education. Someday one of my rescued dwarfs is bound to be diabetic. . .

#3 tinypixie

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Posted 16 April 2012 - 12:02 PM

Thank you! MP also messaged me and said not to come to any conclusions until I have a week or 2 of data and consistent readings. She also said that it could have been stress that produced the readings I got on the first day. Let's hope it's that!

Thanks, Malloria, and I'd love to see pics of Fraiser if my Wubble reminds you of him :D

#4 malloria

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Posted 17 April 2012 - 02:56 AM

I will have to see what photos I still have of Frasier's sorry initial state. I know I deleted some, but I don't remember if it was because the quality was bad or because they made me sad. (I am sitting here at work tearing up--he had such a special place in my heart!)

#5 tinypixie

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Posted 17 April 2012 - 09:41 AM

Day 4. Day 3 was impossible to get a urine sample from her. I caught her every time she drank water, but she never urinated. Except this one time, when I put her on my bed to play, she immediatly urinated on my sheets.. LOL.. I couldn't get a test from that and even if I could, it wouldn't have been an accurate reading.

I got a test today though:
Posted Image

In my light it reads zero glucose and slight ketones, but looking at the photograph, it reads zero glucose and no ketones. In any case, I want to see more of this! Very good news Posted Image

Edited by tinypixiexoxo, 20 April 2012 - 12:22 PM.


#6 PinkPumpkinGirl

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Posted 18 April 2012 - 02:36 AM

Day 4. Day 3 was impossible to get a urine sample from her. I caught her every time she drank water, but she never urinated. Except this one time, when I put her on my bed to play, she immediatly urinated on my sheets.. LOL.. I couldn't get a test from that and even if I could, it wouldn't have been an accurate reading.

I got a test today though:
Posted Image

In my light it reads zero glucose and slight keytones, but looking at the photograph, it reads zero glucose and no keytones. In any case, I want to see more of this! Very good news Posted Image

YAY! Hoping for the best!!!

#7 tinypixie

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Posted 18 April 2012 - 04:56 AM

Thank you Posted Image

Day 5 test
Posted Image

Definitely ketones registering. Not sure what that means with no glucose. Luckily this was taken with natural light so I'm sure there's ketones.

SO the lack of glucose is good, but if ketones consistently show up, I'd wonder if Wubby needs a 50/50 mix of water and pedialyte as some websites suggest. Any guidance is appreciated. She still drinks a lot each day.

Edited by tinypixiexoxo, 20 April 2012 - 12:23 PM.


#8 emilystar

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Posted 18 April 2012 - 05:00 AM

Is it just me or has the keystones increased since day 4? It might just be the lighting though.

#9 tinypixie

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Posted 18 April 2012 - 05:06 AM

Is it just me or has the keystones increased since day 4? It might just be the lighting though.


It's not just you, it looks to me that they increased since day 4. And on day 2, there was no ketones. :/

Edited by tinypixiexoxo, 20 April 2012 - 12:23 PM.


#10 emilystar

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Posted 18 April 2012 - 05:11 AM

That's strange. Do you know what's causing it?

#11 tinypixie

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Posted 18 April 2012 - 05:23 AM

That's strange. Do you know what's causing it?


Causing it, no, not sure. From what I keep reading, any of the 3 possible combinations are a form of diabetes:
High glucose, No ketones (that was Panda's diagnosis)
High glucose, High ketones (the reading from day 1 with Wubble)
Low/No glucose, High ketones (Wubbles more current readings)

So.. I guess I have to assume she has some sort of diabetes if these readings continue. Again, she's been with me less than a week. So maybe things will level out over another week or so. Duno.

But at the same time, I want to take immediate action if I can, to give her the best chance.

I've been using these two sites to help me understand, but I would prefer someone who has experience to guide me:

http://dashinghamste...n-hamsters.html
http://www.hamsterif...rfdiabetes.html

Edited by tinypixiexoxo, 20 April 2012 - 12:23 PM.


#12 HoppingHammy

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Posted 18 April 2012 - 10:04 AM

Hmm, well I know hardly anything at all about diabetes, so take my words like a grain of salt, but after googling the term - "no glucose and high ketones", pulled up a few various sites that mostly said:

"There are situations when you might have ketones without the blood glucose being too high. Positive ketones are not a problem when blood glucose levels are within range"

I wonder if that means the situation isn't too severe? My advice is defintely keep her on a sugar free diet like you would with any dwarf - no fruit or corn and extra fiber, (veggies) and protein for a bit. Keep testing and give her another couple of weeks to see how that goes. Maybe everything will stabilize. I doubt the Pedialyte would hurt anything to give, but then again, I really don't know. Posted Image This is mostly a ramble lol!

Edited by HoppingHammy, 18 April 2012 - 10:06 AM.


#13 tinypixie

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Posted 18 April 2012 - 10:16 AM

Hmm, well I know hardly anything at all about diabetes, so take my words like a grain of salt, but after googling the term - "no glucose and high ketones", pulled up a few various sites that mostly said:

"There are situations when you might have ketones without the blood glucose being too high. Positive ketones are not a problem when blood glucose levels are within range"

I wonder if that means the situation isn't too severe? My advice is defintely keep her on a sugar free diet like you would with any dwarf - no fruit or corn and extra fiber, (veggies) and protein for a bit. Keep testing and give her another couple of weeks to see how that goes. Maybe everything will stabilize. I doubt the Pedialyte would hurt anything to give, but then again, I really don't know. Posted Image This is mostly a ramble lol!


Thanks! What sites did you see that from? I sure hope that's what it is and that's true.

She drank much less today comparatively. But the ketones made me worried. I hope pedialyte is okay because I'm going to buy some tomorrow... and I want to get a hold of fenugreek seeds because pedialyte has dexatrose ..... so confused ..... want the best....

Edited by tinypixiexoxo, 20 April 2012 - 12:24 PM.


#14 malloria

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Posted 18 April 2012 - 10:17 AM

"There are situations when you might have ketones without the blood glucose being too high. Positive ketones are not a problem when blood glucose levels are within range"


This was exactly Frasier's situation. He never tested positive for excess glucose, but his ketones were generally off the scale. He peed buckets, yet he lived 2 years and 4 months (estimated--he was a rescue) with this condition. For whatever reason his body burned more fat than it should have, giving rise to the ketone bodies. This can happen if the ham produces too little insulin and glucose can't be used for fuel, but the result of that would be a high glucose level, not a normal one. I simply maintained him on a sugar-free diet and plain old water. Once the vet and I got all his maladies under control he was a happy, relatively healthy boy.

#15 HoppingHammy

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Posted 18 April 2012 - 10:29 AM

Have you read this topic already, tinypixie? :) http://hamsterhideout.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=58811 There's a lot of good info in it. Maybe something....even just one tidbit can help you someway? Another thought I had is Ketotic hypoglycemia, or SOME form of hypoglycemia? Hmmm, not sure though.

And the site I found ^that info one was actually one for human diabetics: http://www.joslin.org/info/ketone_testing_what_you_need_to_know.html