5 replies to this topic

[strawberryswissroll]

Hey guys! it's been a few months since posting. Ham's been well but I have a question for the dog owners out there! (I also cross posted this to r/dogs on reddit but that sub is very busy and I figured maybe someone here might have advice as well) Does anyone have any tips or resources that you would suggest showing to someone who struggles to care for a large breed dog with aggressive tendencies? I feel like I have said about as much as I can to my sister but it's like talking to a brick wall. Don't know if ages are relevant but for reference, I'm 20, my sister is 31, her husband is 27. Her (and her husband's) dog is a pitbull mix rescue, about 90lb. He can be the sweetest boy but he certainly has some behavioral problems that I think can be worked on in the right environment. However, whenever I bring up training, I am met with some variation of "I know my dog best, he wouldn't do well with X" or "I don't need to pay for a trainer to tell me how to do X, I've researched it all before and can do it myself". After this is said, I'll typically bring up how if she is unwilling to put in the money/time/work to train him, it would be the kindest thing for the dog to find him someone who is able to follow through and work through this with him. Then she says something like "Nobody else would be able to tolerate him" or "Anybody else would send him back to the shelter and he would be euthanized". So, yeah. Presently, he receives well less than 30min daily of physical exercise and mental stimulation. My sister doesn't walk him because she can't control him on the leash and he has become increasingly aggressive towards anyone who is on the opposite side of the street. So, she leaves walking him up to her husband who has admitted to feeling embarrassed while being seen with him since he, too, is unable to control the dog. Due to this, walks are kept to the bare minimum. Nails have not been trimmed in about a year, and I am not sure if he's seeing a vet for regular checkups anymore. It infuriates me. I know my sister is not intentionally a cruel person but the care that her dog is receiving is extremely questionable. Example: he has accidents on the floor because neither my sister nor her husband are taking him out for scheduled bathroom breaks. There have also been times when he hasn't even been given breakfast because my sister was in a rush to leave for work and then leaves it up to her husband to feed him, but then he just doesn't.

*I know all of this because two months ago I stayed at their home while I was waiting to move into my new apartment. Wherever I could I would help out caring for the dog but at the same time, he isn't my animal to care for. Not to mention when I do visit I'm not even able to take him outside since he is too strong for me to responsibly have outdoors. The last time I had him on the leash, I took him out to use the bathroom. We were in the driveway and he had gone after a teenager walking down the road. I was horrified at this since nobody had mentioned to me that his behavior had escalated to this extent and the rope burn I got from trying to hold him back was excruciating. The scar still hurts when I touch it! Actually, after this happened, she said she would look into muzzle training him herself but nothing has come of that. And to top everything off, my sister has recently had her first baby girl- her dog has begun to show what I believe are aggressive behaviors towards my niece which makes this (in my mind) all the more urgent.

Some background info:

About two years ago my older sister and her boyfriend (now husband) adopted a dog from their local shelter. They estimated him to be under a year old. Her husband has grown up with large dogs in his home but has little experience being the sole trainer and caretaker as his parents would be the ones doing this. My sister has no experience with dogs. This may sound harsh but in a nutshell, every animal she has ever kept has ended up being rehomed because she either 1. lost motivation/interest or 2. ended up finding herself in over her head. At the time of the dog's adoption, she had one cat. In fact, just before adopting her dog, she had but a few months prior rehomed an older cat that she had kept for ~2 years. At this point in the timeline, she's with one younger cat and one new dog. Fast forward a few months down the line, the younger cat is rehomed since the dog would relentlessly chase and even mouth her, drag her, etc. Now she and her boyfriend are left with just the dog. The first few months of her dog being home, training was fairly consistent and he would be regularly exercised, I anticipate ~1-2hr every couple of days. Soon after spending more time with him, they began to notice him being overprotective and even aggressive towards people and other dogs. Snapping, growling, chasing people outside, getting very close to faces and showing teeth, nipping fingers and hands if you pick belongings up from the floor, etc. Another example: I accompanied her once on a trip to a dog park that she would frequent, there he had pinned a small lab puppy down on the ground for walking up to his water bowl. He's nipped me quite a few times and even drew blood on my face while my sister, to this day, insists that he was only playing. Eventually, she got busier - graduated med school, moved/bought a house, began working, had a baby.

Present situation:

At this point, her dog is on the very back burner. My sister uses "I'm busy" as a justification to hand off caring for the dog to whoever may be around (her husband who's home during the day as he works evenings, my mom who stays in her home to help care for the baby, or myself when I visit every few weeks). After a few instances of the dog growling at their 6mo old baby while she's in her crib, to snapping at her face and again at her hands (separate occasions) her husband has made it clear to her that he is unwilling to put up with the dog out of fear for their baby's safety. Still, no-budge on my sister's end other than her saying that she will look into muzzle training. Otherwise, she has made it clear that she will not be going through with finding an experienced trainer, and she is not open to finding him a new home. I can understand how the thought of giving up a pet you love would be devastating. But from my perspective, she is hardly giving this dog the quality of life he deserves. I figure there is not much else I can say to somebody like this, and they'll have to come to terms with reality themselves but maybe I'm missing something?

TLDR;

My older sister and her husband have a dog who is not receiving the special attention or care I feel he needs. They don't seem to be addressing any red flags. I have tried talking to them about how I am worried about the dog's wellbeing. My sister will either ignore my concerns completely, say she will go back to working on training him herself, or break down in tears saying that anyone who she rehomes in him to will have him euthanized. Opinions?

[Kikya]

I would look up victoria stillwell's YouTube channel. It's me or the dog. She also has a website for dog training. That's where I would go if I needed help with an aggresive dog.

 

Also, keep your niece away from an untrained dog, no reason to take the risk.

Edited by Kikya, 06 December 2021 - 06:47 AM.

[rhys]

have you tried to direct your concerns to her husband? is there any way he would be open to trying to get this dog trained or trying to convince your sister to rehome him?

 

i would recommend you find as much evidence as you can that proves your point here. instances in which an untrained but otherwise sweet dog hurt someone, or tried to, and had to deal with its owners actions because of it. studies and statistics, maybe, if you can find them? you can show both her and her husband them, to try and get at least one of them convinced on it. it's shocking, but if nothing else convinces her, show her images. pictures that go along with cases where loving family dogs weren't trained or were neglected and consequences came from it. 

 

if nothing else, you could try to convince her to rehome him to you and you rehome him to someone else? tell her you'll take care of it and find him a good home. or try to appeal to her emotions; you said she cried talking about how she thinks he'll be euthanized if she rehomes him. you can use that, express how one slip up from her inaction can lead to him harming someone and subsequently being punished for her issues here. it only takes one bite, one attack to the wrong person or the wrong pet and he'll be put down. 

 

i wish you a lot of luck in this! i know how frustrating and helpless you can feel in a situation like this, where the problems are so clear to you but the other person is certain they know it better. i hope she can open her eyes.

[Silktail]

While I will admit I didn't read the entire, I can say to never ever ask r/dogs for advice. I can almost guarantee you that the answers you'll get will basically call you all sorts of a horrible dog owner and why aren't you dropped $3000 on a veterinary behaviorist right now and if you aren't willing to do that you should just rehome the dog. And everyone has a better behaved dog than you and either got their dog from a higher quality breeder than you did or they are better at rescuing than you.

Basically just general reddit elitism.

Edit: and the irony to r/dog posts is if you look through the profiles of the people flaming you, they are either obviously teens with no life responsibilities or people who are either rich and out of touch or pretending to be rich and out of touch.

Edited by Silktail, 06 December 2021 - 12:55 PM.

[Sparrow]

First of all, this dog needs a head collar when out on walks. It's the only thing that will effectively stop the pulling after just a walk or two and the dog will learn that he can't pull if walked consistently.

He also needs a Kong and treat toys. Those are amazing for mental stimulation. The dog will calm down and become even more tired than of he was to be walked for an extra long walk.

This dog needs exercise. If he is aggressive towards other people and other animals, he needs to be driven to places that are away from anybody else and made to run for an hour or longer. Twice a day or more would be best, but having a little baby myself, i understand that that is not always possible. But an hour a day is a must and if you can't even dedicate that much time to the dog, then you need to consider what other options you have.

Muzzle training is a must. It will take a week of consistent positive reinforcement and the dog should be comfortable enough to wear it for the extent of the walk.

If he is snapping at their baby already and has a history of bites, they must really think about rehoming. The baby will be crawling soon (if she isn't already) and walking, opening doors, trying to touch the dog. It's a disaster waiting to happen. If he bites a random stranger, that's a potential for a lawsuit. If your sister can't even afford a professional trainer, she is hardly going to be able to cover medical expenses.

Start with muzzle training in combination with head collar. Go on walks, even if they are short, wearing the head collar and muzzle. Offer the Kong throughout the day and find a variety of treat puzzle toys to keep his mind occupied. If your sister can't even do the bare minimum to try to keep her family and everyone around her safe, than she needs to seriously reconsider having this dog. As harsh as it is, maybe the kindest thing to a dog like this, that is already aggressive towards people and has drawn blood, would be to have him put to sleep. He is not going to have a good quality of life unless living in a very specific and very experienced home. However, even experienced dog owners would be cautious about adopting an aggressive dog.

[nebit]

Honestly, the only person giving any sort of training advice on a dog like this should be an experienced trainer who has seen the dog in person. The behaviors you describe are dangerous, and taking the wrong approach, even with the best intentions, can make things much, much worse and even lead to injury.

 

Your sisters sounds like a fully grown, educated person who should know better, but is choosing to ignore the situation. Unfortunately, he's her dog, and there's really not much you can do, unless you want to pursue a vicious dog complaint next time he bites you (which would understandably increase family tensions). If you feel the baby is being intentionally put in immediately dangerous situations, you could also pursue that as neglect. Otherwise, I don't see much changing here. I think perhaps, barring the above, your best strategy may be A. drawing boundaries for your own safety (I cannot come over if Barney is not confined, he's already drawn blood when interacting with me- then stick with it) and/or B. stop focusing on Barney, and instead focus on the very real threat to your sister's human child. She's proven she doesn't care enough about Barney to address his needs, but maybe she'll come to her sense if/when she realizes the baby is in real danger.