22 replies to this topic

[~musical912]

Spoiler

Which breeder? I’ve never seen one myself so I’m curious.

 

 

 

Spoiler

Hi, would you be comfortable stating who your breeder is? Curious. Also the mere fact that cross breeds have always existed does not equal that they are predictable? Would you say a lurcher is on equal footing as a Maltese Shih Tzu mix? I'm sorry, but that statement doesn't exactly prove anything. And actually, the creator of the Lab x Poodle for service work (the man who first popularized it) even acknowledged that his efforts were not consistent. Out of his litter, most did end up shedding, but one maintained a Poodle coat so he chose that one for service work. While we're on the topic of this man, in recent interviews he has said that he "created a monster", when the poodle mix fad happened.

 

> "if you take a look at purebred dogs, they also have common health issues."

 

So, this is true. The Poodle breed club recommends hips and Ophthalmologist evaluation for Standards because.. that is what has been proven to consistent problems to look out for with the breed. When you're breeding a breed, you know what common issues occur because it has been recorded since the start of the breed. But if you want to breed a Cavalier x Whippet x Bichon to a Poodle... how do you know what to test for?

 

Well firstly, I will say that reputable breeders of mixes can exist. Cocker Spaniel mixed with Miniature Poodle used to be a popular choice for waterfowl hunters at one point. However, my point is that you want a well bred dog. I will tell you that no one in the reputable breeding circle is okay with their puppy being placed into a cross breeding home. Which brings up the point, purebred does not equal well bred. A standard Poodle can be AKC registered, have hips done, but have a shoddy, nervy temperament and an insane swayback. I have yet to see any Poodle mix breeder that evaluates their puppies structurally nor has stacked photographs of their parent dogs.

First of all, no, I don’t feel comfortable sharing the breeder as it would give away my approximate location. 
 

To be honest, I really don’t feel like using my time to discuss such a controversial topic. I don’t think this argument is going anywhere no matter how convincing we are. Can we please agree to disagree? Thank you.  

[milkyway]

That's fair. Though if I'm being honest, it's a bit ironic that whenever I speak out like this, no one who defends their mix can ever tell me who their reputable breeder is.. which is why I can say that I have never seen one. 

 

When family members had looked to me to find an ethical poodle mix breeder, I was appalled at what I had found after combing site after site. Claims that their dogs didn't need brushing, and that their fur was superior over a Poodle's because apparently a straight fur influence made it maintenance-free. Which is.. far from the truth. The opposite, really. Most groomers have actually began to implement a higher charge for "doodles" specifically because they tend to come in terrible condition, which is A) because in general, a soft, thin, high shedding double coat is not usually compatible with a single, coarse, curly one, therefore poodle mixes have a tendency to matt much more quickly and more easily. Even Poodles have large variations in coat quality, it's not so one note. Which also brings up the point that because most poodle mix breeders tend to have poorly bred stock, it can be said it's unlikely their poodles will have high quality coats.... and B) because many people are lied to about the maintenance that is required of a mutt like this.

 

I really think it would do this conversation good to remove a fondness for our dogs from this. My own dog is a Shih Tzu x Yorkie, a popular fad mix, and I adore her. But she is also an example of unpredictability. I have had the pleasure of meeting many well bred Shih Tzus and Yorkshires and I can say that her temperament is of neither. Yes, she is awfully sweet, but she has always been a very nervy dog that is massively independent, both traits that have never characteristics of either breed. She will always be one of my heart dogs, but I can acknowledge she is not a well bred dog.

 

Likewise, I have noticed poodle mix breeders like to advertise their parent dogs as low energy couch potatoes. Both retrievers and Poodles are supposed to be high energy hunting dogs. 

 

Anyways, for anyone who likes the look of "doodles", but would like to have a much easier time finding a well bred pup, I will always recommend Barbets. Yes, they look a bit goofy, but they are absolutely adorable when their eyes are cleaned up. Here is a fawn Barbet.

 

 

 

They were bred to be more laid back, calmer, but still playful. I have loved my mentor's Barbets, they are so agreeable, sweet, and personable. They come in fawn, white, black, brown, black piebald, brown piebald, fawn piebald, gray, and gray piebald. 

 

 

 

 

As for small breed, Havanese and Bichons have been my favorite. They are hypoallergenic, and just have amazing, giving temperaments.

[~musical912]

Spoiler

That's fair. Though if I'm being honest, it's a bit ironic that whenever I speak out like this, no one who defends their mix can ever tell me who their reputable breeder is.. which is why I can say that I have never seen one. 

 

When family members had looked to me to find an ethical poodle mix breeder, I was appalled at what I had found after combing site after site. Claims that their dogs didn't need brushing, and that their fur was superior over a Poodle's because apparently a straight fur influence made it maintenance-free. Which is.. far from the truth. The opposite, really. Most groomers have actually began to implement a higher charge for "doodles" specifically because they tend to come in terrible condition, which is A) because in general, a soft, thin, high shedding double coat is not usually compatible with a single, coarse, curly one, therefore poodle mixes have a tendency to matt much more quickly and more easily. Even Poodles have large variations in coat quality, it's not so one note. Which also brings up the point that because most poodle mix breeders tend to have poorly bred stock, it can be said it's unlikely their poodles will have high quality coats.... and B) because many people are lied to about the maintenance that is required of a mutt like this.

 

I really think it would do this conversation good to remove a fondness for our dogs from this. My own dog is a Shih Tzu x Yorkie, a popular fad mix, and I adore her. But she is also an example of unpredictability. I have had the pleasure of meeting many well bred Shih Tzus and Yorkshires and I can say that her temperament is of neither. Yes, she is awfully sweet, but she has always been a very nervy dog that is massively independent, both traits that have never characteristics of either breed. She will always be one of my heart dogs, but I can acknowledge she is not a well bred dog.

 

Likewise, I have noticed poodle mix breeders like to advertise their parent dogs as low energy couch potatoes. Both retrievers and Poodles are supposed to be high energy hunting dogs. 

 

Anyways, for anyone who likes the look of "doodles", but would like to have a much easier time finding a well bred pup, I will always recommend Barbets. Yes, they look a bit goofy, but they are absolutely adorable when their eyes are cleaned up. Here is a fawn Barbet.

 

 

 

They were bred to be more laid back, calmer, but still playful. I have loved my mentor's Barbets, they are so agreeable, sweet, and personable. They come in fawn, white, black, brown, black piebald, brown piebald, fawn piebald, gray, and gray piebald. 

 

 

 

 

As for small breed, Havanese and Bichons have been my favorite. They are hypoallergenic, and just have amazing, giving temperaments.

I’m so sorry that I’m not willing to tell some random strangers on the internet my approximate location. I don’t find it creepy in any way.

Edited by ~musical912, 29 July 2021 - 01:15 AM.

[Remy]

I’m so sorry that I’m not willing to tell some random strangers on the internet my approximate location. I don’t find it creepy in any way.

There’s really no need to be rude. Her reply didn’t sound mean and definitely didn’t warrant a response like this.

[~musical912]

There’s really no need to be rude. Her reply didn’t sound mean and definitely didn’t warrant a response like this.

I didn’t intend to sound rude either. I’m really just frustrated. I’ve already stated that I’m not comfortable giving the breeder’s information and it made me a bit uncomfortable that they continued to comment about it.

Sorry for all of the fuss. I won’t be responding to this topic anymore. Have a good day.

[milkyway]

I didn’t intend to sound rude either. I’m really just frustrated. I’ve already stated that I’m not comfortable giving the breeder’s information and it made me a bit uncomfortable that they continued to comment about it.

Sorry for all of the fuss. I won’t be responding to this topic anymore. Have a good day.

And I did not press you for that information multiple times. All I did was state that I was noticing a pattern, and I'm sorry you might have taken it the wrong way.

[milkyway]

And if anyone is interested in learning more about the dog community, showing, how preservation breeding works, please feel free to check out this server! https://discord.gg/T6TkR6jS

It's not mine, but it's very helpful.

[Phosphorus]

I'm gonna say this point blank, in my opinion, as someone who spends lots of times researching dogs, no breeder who breeds mutts (thats what "designer dogs" are, really expensive mutts) is unethical. Theres too many things that come along with breeding mixed breeds, so many ethical breeding standards not met that I cannot justify calling any of them ethical. 

 

First of, you cannot improve a breed by mixing it with another breed, a first tell tail sign of unethical. 

 

You cannot guarantee the health of a mixed breed, they will take issues from both sides and it's just a mess because there is no breed standard, so no set health tests that can be done.

 

Most if not everyone mixed breed breeder i know off just throws out puppys to whoever will buy them, a HUGE red flag of unethical breeding.

 

There's so much more i can go into but I know i'm already ruffling a few feathers with this post.