65 replies to this topic

[Bearthehammy~]

[quote name="Smile414" post="1618128" timestamp="1591757210"]

However, the pet mills should know that they are doing something wrong.
They might know its wrong, but they want to turn a profit so there not gonna change.
Because I don’t think any animal is healthy with conditions like that.
Besides genetic defects, I would believe a healthy hamster would come out of a mill.
They also know they are illegal. That’s why many people don’t seem to know.
Most pet mills are legal, the only illegal ones are the ones what make it onto the news. How would the news be if it was all positive?
I know that pet stores aren’t to blame. However the people who run the pet mills don’t seem innocent. They should know that animals need vet care. and it common sense that animals shouldn’t be killed, or fed that little.
No comment

That’s why many hamsters from pet stores are scared and not tamed.
An animal will only become tame if you work with them, with that many animals it would be IMPOSSIBLE to tame everyone. Only for it to be reverted during shipping.[/quote

I’m no way defending pet mills, just some of your points don’t make sense.

[dancinghammy447]

However, the pet mills should know that they are doing something wrong. Because I don’t think any animal is healthy with conditions like that. They also know they are illegal. That’s why many people don’t seem to know. I know that pet stores aren’t to blame. However the people who run the pet mills don’t seem innocent. They should know that animals need vet care. and it common sense that animals shouldn’t be killed, or fed that little. That’s why many hamsters from pet stores are scared and not tamed.

If they give every single animal vet care, how much would that cost? Thousands, maybe millions of dollars. And rodent mills aren't illegal. Pet mills aren't cruel to their animals. They still need to sell them. Who's going to buy an underfed hamster? Noone.

[Aurora ♥ Hammy]

If they give every single animal vet care, how much would that cost? Thousands, maybe millions of dollars. And rodent mills aren't illegal. Pet mills aren't cruel to their animals. They still need to sell them. Who's going to buy an underfed hamster? Noone.

 

I’m not saying every single animal vet care. I’m saying the ones which don’t look healthy and are sick. They keep hamsters in bins (not bin cages) with like more than 20 hamsters in a bin. I’m just saying that some pet mills don’t give hamsters the correct care because they are sold for “cheap” and that’s not right.

[Aurora ♥ Hammy]

[quote name="Smile414" post="1618128" timestamp="1591757210"]

However, the pet mills should know that they are doing something wrong.
They might know its wrong, but they want to turn a profit so there not gonna change.
Because I don’t think any animal is healthy with conditions like that.
Besides genetic defects, I would believe a healthy hamster would come out of a mill.
They also know they are illegal. That’s why many people don’t seem to know.
Most pet mills are legal, the only illegal ones are the ones what make it onto the news. How would the news be if it was all positive?
I know that pet stores aren’t to blame. However the people who run the pet mills don’t seem innocent. They should know that animals need vet care. and it common sense that animals shouldn’t be killed, or fed that little.
No comment

That’s why many hamsters from pet stores are scared and not tamed.
An animal will only become tame if you work with them, with that many animals it would be IMPOSSIBLE to tame everyone. Only for it to be reverted during shipping.[/quote

I’m no way defending pet mills, just some of your points don’t make sense.

What points don’t make sense?

[Bearthehammy~]

What points don’t make sense?

I added my answers in the quote?

[Aurora ♥ Hammy]

I added my answers in the quote?

Oh well. It seems like it’s the illegal ones which chain stores (petsmart and Petco) seem to get animals out of. And they’ve been caught many times (hence why they aren’t allowed to sell rabbits anymore). And I’m just trying to say that the illegal pet mills aren’t “accidentally” treating hamsters like that. No animal would be ok under those circumstances that’s commonsense. And when hamsters from those pet mills are scared it’s because they’ve been through a lot, and don’t really know if it’s ok to trust humans after what they’ve been through. That’s why I don’t support most pet mills since it’s no accident, anyways if your selling hamsters, you should know how to take care of them.

[Bearthehammy~]

Oh well. It seems like it’s the illegal ones which chain stores (petsmart and Petco) seem to get animals out of. And they’ve been caught many times (hence why they aren’t allowed to sell rabbits anymore). And I’m just trying to say that the illegal pet mills aren’t “accidentally” treating hamsters like that. No animal would be ok under those circumstances that’s commonsense. And when hamsters from those pet mills are scared it’s because they’ve been through a lot, and don’t really know if it’s ok to trust humans after what they’ve been through. That’s why I don’t support most pet mills since it’s no accident, anyways if your selling hamsters, you should know how to take care of them.

I have only heard of 1 or 2 petmills getting caught, all the time is not a good word to use when they were caught years ago. Most petsmarts and cos use different mills, i’m pretty sure alot of them have changed the mills they use. Getting in that much stock is hard if you went with a local good breeder. No they aren’t accidentally treating hamster like that. When your getting un so much stock at once it’s IMPOSSIBLE to keep it to normal hamster owner standards. Please stop saying all pet mills are illegal, there not. I’m not defending them but it just urks me lol. Once again, you can’t expect a pet mill to have so much stock at once and care for them to the bare minimum standard we have, they have to turn a profit to pet stores. How do you think they are still in Business?

Once again im not supportive, just confused on the points you maid.

[Aurora ♥ Hammy]

I have only heard of 1 or 2 petmills getting caught, all the time is not a good word to use when they were caught years ago. Most petsmarts and cos use different mills, i’m pretty sure alot of them have changed the mills they use. Getting in that much stock is hard if you went with a local good breeder. No they aren’t accidentally treating hamster like that. When your getting un so much stock at once it’s IMPOSSIBLE to keep it to normal hamster owner standards. Please stop saying all pet mills are illegal, there not. I’m not defending them but it just urks me lol. Once again, you can’t expect a pet mill to have so much stock at once and care for them to the bare minimum standard we have, they have to turn a profit to pet stores. How do you think they are still in Business?

Once again im not supportive, just confused on the points you maid.

I’m not saying ALL mills are illegal. I’m specifically pointing out the illegal ones. Hence why I say illegal before the pet mills. I understand why that would be a bit confusing. But I’m not trying to say all pet mills are illegal. I’m saying illegal before pet mills to say I’m specifically talking about the illegal ones. And when I meant “accidentally” I was saying that in response to something someone else said. Saying that the people who run the pet mills don’t know how to take care of hamsters, and haven’t researched so it’s not their fault. I was saying in response that they should know how to take care of hamsters if they are selling them. And I’m not trying to say that the mills have to meet the same standards pet owners have. But the shouldn’t cramp that many hamsters together. As in they keep like 20 hamsters in maybe a 200 sq. in. Bin.

[Bearthehammy~]

I’m not saying ALL mills are illegal. I’m specifically pointing out the illegal ones. Hence why I say illegal before the pet mills. I understand why that would be a bit confusing. But I’m not trying to say all pet mills are illegal. I’m saying illegal before pet mills to say I’m specifically talking about the illegal ones. And when I meant “accidentally” I was saying that in response to something someone else said. Saying that the people who run the pet mills don’t know how to take care of hamsters, and haven’t researched so it’s not their fault. I was saying in response that they should know how to take care of hamsters if they are selling them. And I’m not trying to say that the mills have to meet the same standards pet owners have. But the shouldn’t cramp that many hamsters together. As in they keep like 20 hamsters in maybe a 200 sq. in. Bin.

But the point of mills is to get as meny hamsters as they can out for the cheapest price.

[Aurora ♥ Hammy]

But the point of mills is to get as meny hamsters as they can out for the cheapest price.

Yeah but that doesn’t mean the hamsters should be in conditions like that

[Bearthehammy~]

Yeah but that doesn’t mean the hamsters should be in conditions like that

Yes they shouldn’t but they will be put in thoes conditions for money

[MerryBB]

Commercial rodent breeders are not like puppy mills. They use established techniques for keeping rodents safe/sanitary for the few weeks they are kept before being shipped off to the pet stores that buy from them. (Well ventilated, secure breeding boxes; easy access to food and water; space requirements met to avoid dangerous/unsanitary overcrowding; humane euthanasia where necessary; etc.) The vast majority of people in the business of breeding/selling rodents aren't going out of their way to be cruel or neglectful.

 

It's just not currently possible to meet pet stores' demand for small animals and take the appropriate care to ensure only healthy lines are bred, animals are well socialized as pups, significantly more space and enrichment is provided (making it harder and more expensive to keep clean + potential safety hazards in a large scale breeding situation), etc. The way things are at the moment, the high demand for rodents as pets is mostly coming from people who want a $15 - $25 pet that looks healthy and cute in the store and is only going to be a 1-2 year commitment. This demand isn't currently changed much by whether the animals are predisposed to tumors / organ failure / etc later in life or weren't all housed in 40 gallon tanks for the few weeks they spent at the breeding facility.

 

Until there is a big improvement in the technology available to commercially breed rodents in more ethical ways and/or the demand changes to make commercial breeding less profitable, there's no reason for pet stores or their suppliers to change much. In most cases the people working in these industries aren't cruelly ignoring a large number of suffering/dying animals. It's just that in cases where, for one reason or another, a commercial breeding facility (or just a single employee) is blatantly cruel or neglectful to some of its animals: that gets a lot of attention against a background of the average commercial breeding operation that is bad/unethical for much less flashy and dramatic reasons.

 

(Also.. Commercial breeders don't sell to individuals directly. Why would they have easily accessible websites with pictures/videos of their breeding facilities, prices, a "contact me" page, and the whole shebang if their customers are 100% other businesses like chain pet stores and laboratories and they have no reason to interact directly with the customers of those businesses? I don't think the fact that it's difficult to find pictures of commercial breeders' facilities online is well explained by "it's because they know what they're doing is wrong"..)

[LittleHamsterAmerica]

Lynn's Pets is a great pet store
She actually handles the animals in their!
But Petco,Petsmart and Petland are not that great to there pets!

Edited by LittleHamsterAmerica, 12 June 2020 - 06:46 AM.

[lil BIG dwarf]

At my local petsmart, A 12 by 5 bin (no cover) with a mesh weel, water bottle, sometimes a hide, and food dish has 2 syrians. theres 1 cm of pine bedding as well.

The WW and campbells (hybrids) all share a 100 gallon tank FULL OF THEM, Some r dead but theyre rarely removed. Theres a water bottle, no bedding, and a food dish :(

They have fish in little cups.

[Bearthehammy~]

At my local petsmart, A 12 by 5 bin (no cover) with a mesh weel, water bottle, sometimes a hide, and food dish has 2 syrians. theres 1 cm of pine bedding as well.
The WW and campbells (hybrids) all share a 100 gallon tank FULL OF THEM, Some r dead but theyre rarely removed. Theres a water bottle, no bedding, and a food dish :(
They have fish in little cups.

Unfortunately, thats the standard in most chain pet stores. I have seen worse though