65 replies to this topic

[Sprout&marmite]

Please tell me. I want to know. It's not good and I want to know what our world is doing wrong. If you can say how to improve it. Also if you haven't heard about it , try and do the pet smart challenge. There's a forum on it explaining what you do

[Hamsterfluff]

I've seen my fair share of pet store horrors.

Possibly the worst thing I've seen at a pet store though was a few years ago. It was a tank of live feeder mice.

The tank was maybe 5 gallons or so (maybe a little bigger, but definitely WAY too small), and there seemed to be a HUNDRED mice in there! They were fighting over the SINGLE water bottle, and some were hanging dead by their necks in the water bottle holder.

They had a tiny mesh wheel with other mice hanging dead again in the groove between the frame and the wheel, and they were all trying to use it.

And of course these mice could breed and their many babies were likely sold right after birth as pinkies, or mutilated and eaten by the swarms of other mice in the same tank.

I think they were something like a dollar each. It was heartbreaking to see. Even though they were intended to be fed to reptiles or other animals, they should still be treated with the same compassion as the pet mice that were being sold in somewhat better conditions. 
After all, they're essentially the same animal with a different coat color.

Btw, I think this was at a Pet Warehouse... I can't remember exactly, though.

[AlexanderTheOkay]

There are two things that stick out the most for me.

 

The first was not too long ago, actually. I guess it was cage cleaning day at the pet store when we went. All the small animals, except for the ferrets and guinea pigs, were out of their cages and in these little plastic boxes on a cart. Each cage got it's own box, so none of the animals were mixed together. Each dwarf pair got their own box, each group of mice got their own box, etc.. except for the syrians. Each of the "Teddy Bear", "Fancy", "Panda", and "Golden" hamsters who were previously separate, one hamster to a cage, were now thrown together in one little box with no wheel or food. They were crawling all over each other trying to get out.

 

The other worst thing I've seen was awhile back, before getting a hamster was even on my radar, so it's not actually hamster-related but still horrible. I've been really into parrots for a long time, and I was considering getting a parrot about a year ago. Me and my Mom went to a few pet shops and bird stores just to see what was around. The last place we went to was some little hole-in-the-wall bird shop we found on google. It didn't have many reviews, or a website, but we decided to check it out anyway. We walk in, and see... a mess. There was like, a bucket of millet sprays and a couple little bird toy tables, but the main attraction obviously supposed to be the "fancy" parrot cages. A giant glass Eclectus cage right by the front door, and a few large Cockatoo cages next to it. These were probably the cleanest, and most expensive, parts of the store. Behind all of this: a ton of little tiny cages stacked on top of each other along the walls of this little store. I mean, every inch of wall on either side  was crammed with cages that were, at most, a foot in size. Cockatiels, Lovebirds, Parakeets, Conures of all kinds, some of them mislabeled or unlabeled altogether. There were multiple birds to a cage, too. Most of them had plucked nearly all of their feathers out, and the cages looked like they needed cleaning weeks ago. I asked the shop "owner" (a woman who said she volunteered often, and that she stood in for the owners when they were gone, which was apparently often) how old their Peach-Faced lovebirds were. She pulled out a chart, looked at it for a long minute, and said neither the age nor birth date were listed. A lot of these birds looked like they didn't have leg bands on, either, which I believe is a sign of being bred by an unreliable breeder. It was, to this day, the worst pet store I've ever set foot in, and I wish I never had.

Edited by Jaime&Pets, 24 October 2019 - 01:13 PM.

[ToffeeHamster123]

The worst thing I have seen were about 200 fish in a tiny tank. This happened quite a while ago but I can still remember the image vividly! I used to have fish before I got a hamster. So My Mum and I used to love going to pet shops to see all the different fish and sometimes buy one! Anyway, we have seen quite enough cramped fish cages for a lifetime! But this one had to be the worst. We were going in to the shop to get a guppy as my old one had recently died. We were looking at the array of fish when I spotted this horrible tank. Now, just because some fish are less valuable then others doesn't mean that they should be kept in worse living conditions, as I'm sure you'll all agree. The fish in this tank were going for a dollar each or somewhere under that! This tank was so swarmed with fish you couldn't even see the back of the tank!! And floating at the top were like 20 dead fish!! I mean who does that?! These poor fish hadn't been cared for at all. So my Mum and I promptly left the shop without buying anything. But, before we went my Mum stopped to have a word with the shop manager and explained the appalling condition of these fish.
That store was probably the worst I've ever been in!

[Hamsteroreo234]

I saw cotton bedding, tiny cages (I’m talking about 100 square inches) 5-inch wheels advertised for Syrians , just pellets and no food variety.
The worst thing would also be seeing a big dwarf hamster in a tiny tiny tank with barely any bedding and a 4-inch wheel up for adoption..
This was in pets at home and I was disgusted !

[Ladybugwillis223]

4 Robos packed into a tiny cage at PetSmart only 2 wheels 1 food bowl and the runt was getting cornered and picked on. So i took her home (her name is Rocket) and advised the employees to seperate the hamsters into the empty cages they had next to them, as they were clearly getting older and needed more room.

[NougatTheHamster]

One of the worst things I saw at Petsmart was MULTIPLE syrians in the same cage. Not to mention they were fighting and biting/clawing/hurting each other. They also had a wire weel. I don't remember this correctly (sorry i was aghast at the multiple syrians and the fighting to notice), but I think they were fed oxbow. so CLEARLY they had like 3mm of bedding, too old to be kept together (as they started fighting), fed OXBOW while still being a baby, has not enough chew sticks (or even none i forgot), and had a wire wheel (that was btw too small). My question is, why does petsmart spend money to raise hamsters if they make their lifespans so short? Technoically, every hamster owner from that store could get a refund because EVERY SINGLE hamster in that store has bumblefoot (i bet, as they ALL have wire wheels). I told the employee that they were fighting, and he said that he'll look into it later, but he wanted to finish feeding the hamsters OXBOW first. I was aghast, theses hamsters were literally fighting and giving each other wounds, that would make them (this reason is for Petsmart) UNSELLABLE and they may die infornt of your customers!!! I know petsmart doesn't care about their health, but shouldn't they see these two reasons and understand that they need to take better care of them??? 

 

Another thing that happened at petsmart was that there was a sich syrian hamster that was huddled in a corner. She (according to the tag she was female) was obviously sick and had problems breathing. I called som staff over and he asked what was wrong. Well, I pointed to the hamster and he still couldn't get what was wrong until a minute. Like, what? Petsmart sorts their employees to different animals, and this was the small animal staff. It just makes me wonder how many animals he has seen under pain and sickness. So he said that he would take her away to the vet, and they ordered another person to open the cage and take her out. She didn't struggle OR respond in any way. I felt so sad and noticed that petsmart gave her too small of a wheel, barely any bedding, and no chew sticks. Why can't petsmart care more for their animals???

[MerryBB]

 

 

PetSmart employees are not the problem, and often have very little control over company policy dictating how enclosures and animals are set up and maintained. Plenty have some casual interest in the animals they are working with, and some are even dedicated researchers and make an effort to sway customers in the 'right direction' wherever they can when they have the energy and ability to, but at the end of the day their job is customer service and following company protocol. It's unfair to be mad at them for not going above and beyond every time.

 

As for the common practice of housing Syrians together like this.. It's not ideal. Nobody's going to tell you it is. But it is likely that these hamsters were under 6 - 8 weeks old and still young enough to be housed together according to generally recognized standards for keeping Syrians for laboratories / breeders / pet stores / etc. It's even possible the fighting you saw was literally just squabbling between young hamsters, which is quite normal and nowhere near as dangerous/stressful as fighting between fully mature adults. Having these hamsters kept together without the strict supervision and experience of a small scale ethical breeder is much less than ideal, but it isn't the greatest evil and most likely won't go too far.

 

The oxbow food is, again, company policy. Oxbow is a very well regarded brand for many other pet foods and often has specific deals with Petsmart and other pet stores to endorse and use their products. It isn't ideal, but it also won't kill them or dramatically shorten their lives. The wheels are unfortunate, most Petsmart locations seem to be phasing those out in favor of Kaytee Silent Spinners and the like, but I'm not personally familiar with how that is happening from the top down. The size can't be helped- those enclosures are only so big.

 

And the enclosures have to be cleaned every 1-2 weeks with a bleach solution, removing all of the bedding and anything else that could become unsanitary or help transmit viral diseases between animals. So it makes sense for the bedding to be very shallow. Providing 6+ inches of bedding every week or so would be an incredible waste and make it difficult for customers to easily view the hamsters if they were burrowed completely underground rather than hiding in semi-transparent hide houses.

 

*Absolutely not meaning to "justify" how pet stores like Petsmart operate. Major reforms are absolutely needed, like those that improved standards for housing/care of animals & banned the sale of certain animals. But they are not uniquely cruel/abusive and it certainly isn't the fault or responsibility of the employees that speak to and help you in the store.

[Aurora ♥ Hammy]

Worst thing I have seen was online. Inside the pet mills that the stores use, they had put all the ill or hurt hamsters, rats , birds etc.  in a bag and hit them against a table until they were all dead. :(

[MerryBB]

 

 

This is simply not a commonly accepted practice in large scale breeding of small animals (as pets, lab animals, or even feeders). Euthanasia has become much more popular and commonplace now that it is a better understood and more easily available option, both because it is more efficient and because it is more humane. Even people without a particular interest in the animals they are working with would prefer not to see or participate in serious neglect / abuse like you have described.

 

In the US animal welfare applying to birds and rodents can often come down to state law and does certainly need improvement: but it isn't a total free for all, especially when it comes to the suppliers of live animals selling to chain stores with a reputation to uphold and with employees who genuinely do care about humane treatment of animals. (Even if their suppliers and in-store practices aren't ideal for producing genetically healthy, well-adjusted pets.)

 

Often you will see "expose" videos online with footage from extreme cases of neglect/mistreatment in businesses that were already in the process of or have already been shut down / made to change practices / lost customers due to malpractice / etc. The groups that film/write and share this graphic imagery/description are often large organizations with a vested interest in selling advertising space to advertisers in order to earn a profit- and shocking/dramatized examples of animal abuse get more 'clicks' than nuanced, in-context, ethical journalism.

[Aurora ♥ Hammy]

This is simply not a commonly accepted practice in large scale breeding of small animals (as pets, lab animals, or even feeders). Euthanasia has become much more popular and commonplace now that it is a better understood and more easily available option, both because it is more efficient and because it is more humane. Even people without a particular interest in the animals they are working with would prefer not to see or participate in serious neglect / abuse like you have described.

 

In the US animal welfare applying to birds and rodents can often come down to state law and does certainly need improvement: but it isn't a total free for all, especially when it comes to the suppliers of live animals selling to chain stores with a reputation to uphold and with employees who genuinely do care about humane treatment of animals. (Even if their suppliers and in-store practices aren't ideal for producing genetically healthy, well-adjusted pets.)

 

Often you will see "expose" videos online with footage from extreme cases of neglect/mistreatment in businesses that were already in the process of or have already been shut down / made to change practices / lost customers due to malpractice / etc. The groups that film/write and share this graphic imagery/description are often large organizations with a vested interest in selling advertising space to advertisers in order to earn a profit- and shocking/dramatized examples of animal abuse get more 'clicks' than nuanced, in-context, ethical journalism.

Except it’s still happening, if you have watched victoria Rachael she said that it’s still happening and she is telling everyone not to purchase animals from pet stores because of pet mills supplying these, they can’t stop so easily, there are many illegal ones, and just because a few had been shut down does not mean all are. :(

[MerryBB]

Except it’s still happening, if you have watched victoria Rachael she said that it’s still happening and she is telling everyone not to purchase animals from pet stores because of pet mills supplying these, they can’t stop so easily, there are many illegal ones, and just because a few had been shut down does not mean all are. :(

 

You've completely misunderstood what I've said, and I'm sorry for not being more clear. You said something that made it sound like your opinion of pet store suppliers (large scale breeders, factory breeders, mills, etc) is based on a very graphic example of animal abuse that is by no means commonly accepted or practiced now that we have more efficient and humane methods of euthanasia that have become a very expected part of protecting animal welfare, even for the breeders supplying feeder rodents.

 

Large scale breeders, even those supplying well known chains that have a good reason to uphold higher standards, aren't ethical by any means and improvement is absolutely needed in how they're regulated (especially here in the US). When you're trying to breed to such a high demand you're inevitably going to end up with quite a few genetically unhealthy; extremely poorly socialized; sometimes even sick/injured/overcrowded animals.

 

But the people in this industries aren't going out of their way to do the sorts of blatantly abusive, nonsensical things you tend to see in "expose videos" or read about in certain articles / blog posts. That's what I was responding to- I'm just not great at making my point clear sometimes.

[Aurora ♥ Hammy]

You've completely misunderstood what I've said, and I'm sorry for not being more clear. You said something that made it sound like your opinion of pet store suppliers (large scale breeders, factory breeders, mills, etc) is based on a very graphic example of animal abuse that is by no means commonly accepted or practiced now that we have more efficient and humane methods of euthanasia that have become a very expected part of protecting animal welfare, even for the breeders supplying feeder rodents.

 

Large scale breeders, even those supplying well known chains that have a good reason to uphold higher standards, aren't ethical by any means and improvement is absolutely needed in how they're regulated (especially here in the US). When you're trying to breed to such a high demand you're inevitably going to end up with quite a few genetically unhealthy; extremely poorly socialized; sometimes even sick/injured/overcrowded animals.

 

But the people in this industries aren't going out of their way to do the sorts of blatantly abusive, nonsensical things you tend to see in "expose videos" or read about in certain articles / blog posts. That's what I was responding to- I'm just not great at making my point clear sometimes.

Oh ok sry I didn’t read it clearly, I must’ve skimmed some parts. Thanks. Well then it isn’t the stores fault, it’s the mills, right? So the pet stores aren’t purposely trying to hurt the animals?

[Robin~]

Oh ok sry I didn’t read it clearly, I must’ve skimmed some parts. Thanks. Well then it isn’t the stores fault, it’s the mills, right? So the pet stores aren’t purposely trying to hurt the animals?

 

No one is intentionally trying to hurt these animals, it's just they don't know/care about proper care. I suppose you can put some pet stores to blame for not boycotting these practices but where else are they going to get their animals.

[Aurora ♥ Hammy]

No one is intentionally trying to hurt these animals, it's just they don't know/care about proper care. I suppose you can put some pet stores to blame for not boycotting these practices but where else are they going to get their animals.

 

However, the pet mills should know that they are doing something wrong. Because I don’t think any animal is healthy with conditions like that. They also know they are illegal. That’s why many people don’t seem to know. I know that pet stores aren’t to blame. However the people who run the pet mills don’t seem innocent. They should know that animals need vet care. and it common sense that animals shouldn’t be killed, or fed that little. That’s why many hamsters from pet stores are scared and not tamed.