56 replies to this topic

[panther]

Someone mentioned that in the wild the mice have a chance of escaping. But do the cows? The pigs? The sheep? No, they don't. We sloughter them barbaricly, and we don't care what they feel. How's it different for mice or crickets?

[SouthPaw]

I will say I've never been one for bugs. I'm the one always squishing them when I see them, but I would freak out at anyone who tried to kill a mouse.

So then the question is...at what point does this "end"? No matter the reptile, you'll be killing something. I hate the killing of mice and rats even more (because I get attached to them...a bug just annoys me :P ), but don't think I care nothing about the little creepy crawlers. Unless there's a whole "prekill the cricket" thing. I have nothing against feeding an animal to a reptile, so long as it was humanely killed first.

This is why I'm never owning a reptile...

[ice_orange11]

thats like mouse racism

[panther]

What do you mean, exactly, Ice_Orange?

[Janice]

I never knew anyone who owns snakes since it is illegal to own snakes in SG and I only associate with law abiding citizens. But I do heard a lot of horror stories about snake owners feeding living mice/hamsters to their pets, a friend of mine even told me about how his friend brought young hamsters at $0.50 each and feed them to his pet snake, plus the fact that I had seen so many rude and cruel reptile/insect owners (some of them joke about feeding living hamsters or pinkies to their "pets")on some forums, it is no wonder that I have very bad impression of snake owners in general. I'm surprised that there are hamster lovers who love snakes also and there are snake owners who are actually nice. So my statement abt snake owners being cruel at heart and love showing off is directed towards those demented individuals who feed living animals to their pets. No offences to some of the people here.

But the thing is that I still do not think that snakes are meant to be kept as pets. For hamsters, since they are tiny, it is possible for us to create a relatively huge environment for them to explore in. For dogs and cats, we can freely take them out for a walk to let them explore the surroundings. But for the snake, it is impossible to take them out for a walk (can you imagine how people will stare at you with that snake curling around your neck? In addition, it is dangerous to do that), I'm not sure about this but I feel it will be hard to let the snake roam freely about the house. So I feel the lifestyle of a pet snake is being greatly compromised as compared to a wild one. For keeping snakes as pets, there is always a big issue with safety, within the family or in the public.

Yes, dogs, cats and hamsters do bite but most of the time, if they are tamed, they will not do that (in the case of hamsters, their bites are hardly fatal at all). However, for snakes, I heard a lot of stories of snakes biting their owners despite being owned for a very long time. In addition, bites of poisonous snakes can be fatal, so owning such animals definitely cause danger to oneself and one's neighbours (should the snake escape). I had heard of cases where the pet pythons/anacondas tried to suffocate their owners. I don't think a pet is supposed to be dangerous, non?

There is this discussion about the value of the life of a mouse, cricket and other animals. In my own opinion, I do value the life of warm-blooded animals more than other species since I feel the warm-blooded animals have more emotions and thought, and have greater ability to form bonds (That's just what I feel, may not be fact). (Just look at the dolphin, the warm-blooded animal of the sea who displays far more intelligence and emotions than any other sea dwellers). So I'll feel upset that someone feed mice or hamsters to snakes or other reptiles while feeling nothing about insects being used as feeders.

Edited by Janice, 21 February 2005 - 12:49 PM.

[Kelly_Bear]

But for the snake, it is impossible to take them out for a walk (can you imagine how people will stare at you with that snake curling around your neck? In addition, it is dangerous to do that), I'm not sure about this but I feel it will be hard to let the snake roam freely about the house. So I feel the lifestyle of a pet snake is being greatly compromised as compared to a wild one. For keeping snakes as pets, there is always a big issue with safety, within the family or in the public.

first of all,snakes are not 'active' & so not enjoy going for walks.
they like to sit & bask in heat & digest their last meal.
you have a safety issue with a dog too.theres always a chance of it attacking you & mauling you to death.

Yes, dogs, cats and hamsters do bite but most of the time, if they are tamed, they will not do that (in the case of hamsters, their bites are hardly fatal at all). However, for snakes, I heard a lot of stories of snakes biting their owners despite being owned for a very long time. In addition, bites of poisonous snakes can be fatal, so owning such animals definitely cause danger to oneself and one's neighbours (should the snake escape)

you need a special license to own 'hot' (venomus snakes),and you must be fully aware of the risks before even thinking about having one.even then,you must have the antidotes on hand at all times.
most hot snakes kept in captivity cannot kill you.they can just make you sick.

I had heard of cases where the pet pythons/anacondas tried to suffocate their owners. I don't think a pet is supposed to be dangerous, non?

once again,there is a chance that a dog can kill you as well.most people whith snakes big enough to kill them (i believe for boas if they can wrap their coils 3-4 times around you) only handle the snakes while others are around.
if you have common sense,then snakes arent killers.there are very simple methods to keep yourself safe if you take the time to be educated about them.

I feel the warm-blooded animals have more emotions and thought, and have greater ability to form bonds

while that is true,every animal deserves a life where it is cared for & shown love no matter the species.

you have your opinion,and thats why snakes arent for everyone.

Edited by Kelly_Bear, 21 February 2005 - 01:23 PM.

[Hamster_queen]

I feel sorry for the poor little guys. I just wanna buy them all and save there poor little lifes.But snakes need to eat. Maybe purchasing snakes should be illegal in the USA its unatural mice/rats should atleast have a chance to get away. When i was in the 2nd grade we were called out to the court yard to watch a live snake eat a mouse. To see the way of life. I didn't wanna see it specially unaturally. I asked to be excused from seeing this and they didn't let me. I asked if i could just not look and they actutally made me watch it. Some girls were actutally crying and the boys were like "WOAH COOL".


Dustin my furry friend untill the end

Edited by Hamster_queen, 22 February 2005 - 03:26 AM.

[hammy_fan]

I just wanna buy them all and save there poor little lifes

imagain if you did try to save them though, you would have like 10000000000000 of them.......

[panther]

I feel the warm-blooded animals have more emotions and thought, and have greater ability to form bonds

I don't know why, but that made me think.... have you ever seen anyone hugging a cockroach? Or anyone calling a daddy long legs cute? (<-- OK, so I've done that one, big deal... O.o)

I guess its the way of life. But is it still humane (or at least slightly more humane) to feed them dead pinkies?

And no offence... but is it really easy enough for a mouse to get away from a snake in a natural enviroment? True, there is a chance... but its not high... :(

[SouthPaw]

The one thing I have learned...is to not buy mice/rats from pet shops. Yes, my ratties came from there, but that is before I found a wonderful breeder super super close to me. Why do I say this? You can't save them all, and for every one you buy two more replace it. But then some people will disgree, and argue that at least you saved just that one, and relate it back to the starfish story~

"Once upon a time, there was a wise man who used to go to the ocean to do his writing. He had a habit of walking on the beach before he began his work.

One day, as he was walking along the shore, he looked down the beach and saw a human figure moving like a dancer. He smiled to himself at the thought of someone who would dance to the day, and so, he walked faster to catch up.

As he got closer, he noticed that the figure was that of a young man, and that what he was doing was not dancing at all. The young man was reaching down to the shore, picking up small objects, and throwing them into the ocean.

He came closer still and called out "Good morning! May I ask what it is that you are doing?"

The young man paused, looked up, and replied "Throwing starfish into the ocean."

"I must ask, then, why are you throwing starfish into the ocean?" asked the somewhat startled wise man.

To this, the young man replied, "The sun is up and the tide is going out. If I don't throw them in, they'll die."

Upon hearing this, the wise man commented, "But, young man, do you not realize that there are miles and miles of beach and there are starfish all along every mile? You can't possibly make a difference!"

At this, the young man bent down, picked up yet another starfish, and threw it into the ocean. As it met the water, he said, "It made a difference for that one."

And that DOES make sense, and as much as I would LOVE to save that poor rattie with an unknown fate, I can't bring myself to put more in his place. Think about the puppy poem (which I will link so as to not lengthen this post too much!)~ Puppy Poem

It breaks our heart, but we *can't* save them all and we *can't* send more poor animals there. By buying their pets, we are supporting what they do...and though we feel good for "saving" that one, sometimes we need to look at the big picture...

[Midnight]

I've been on both sides of the fence, I've had snakes and I've had rodents. I loved my snake, and we had to feed it feeder mice, most of the time pre-killed. It's really a matter of personal preference. I know many snake owners who have bonded with their snakes, in their minds at least, but would never get a lil' warm-blooded critter. Personally, (Don't bite my head off) I have no problem with feeder animals as long as they're killed as humanely as possible. But it's the way of life as some others have said. All that lives must eat. People domesticated mice, cats, snakes and the like. So like it or not, those animals have to eat what they normally would too. But it's hard when you become attached to a certain species to watch other people feed them to animals. But that doesn't bother everyone. Most people who are exceptionally bothered by it will not own a reptile.

As for saving the feeder animals. You really never can. As soon as you buy them, they're replaced. And even if they weren't...a reptile owner would find them elsewhere.

As for all the farm animals, the problem for me is not that they are killed to be eaten. My problem is that many are treated inhumanely in life. There would be worse problems, such as overpopulation, if the meat animals weren't eaten. But it's better than it could be as far as the actually slaughtering goes. Don't get me wrong, some places do kill very inhumanely. Men have been hunting animals for centuries and the modern technology is far more humane then it was in the old days. The ancient Minoans of Crete would cut off the horns of bulls before decapitating them with their weapons (which though sharp would not have been painless) for sacrificial purposes, while other civilization would slowly cut off the digits of the animals' limbs before killing them. Then you have people like the Vikings and Native Americans. So I truly believe that over the years mankind as a whole has come a long way. But perfection itself is unobtainable so it will never be perfect. But then you also have to consider avid animal lovers probably aren't going to go nto the animal slaughtering business so there really aren't many people to protect them against cruel practices.

Edited by Midnight, 24 February 2005 - 09:39 AM.

[Kelly_Bear]

It breaks our heart, but we *can't* save them all and we *can't* send more poor animals there. By buying their pets, we are supporting what they do...and though we feel good for "saving" that one, sometimes we need to look at the big picture...

i agree to an extent,but you have to realize..its not the animal's fault it was born in a mill & will be sold in a petstore.its just like it isnt a child's fault if was born to an abusive family.you have to realize that it isnt the animals fault,and that all they want is a good loving home.even if that means supporting a petstore,cant you be like the man with the starfish& focus on helping the one you have? every little bit helps.no,you cant save them all,but you can feel good helping the ones you can!i think everything happens for a resaon & if you just do your part by helping out as many as you can thats all you can do.


I agree with midnight.i dont have a problem actually eating the animal (religious reasons which i wont get into) its the treatment they get before they die.every living thing deserves a good life no matter what it is.(cockroach[AS LONG as its not in my house ] or cow)
but some of these mass meat butcher companies shove the poor animals in these tiny & inhumane conditions & that jsut isnt right.
same with feeders.if they have a bin marked 'feeders',chances are they arent in as good of a condition as the 'pet' ratties.thats just upsetting to me.everything deserves a humane life no matter what it will be.
think about it,we could die in 10 seconds & not know it,but we provide as good of a life as we can for us & our loved ones.people focus too much on what an animal will become & let that determine how they will treat it.