56 replies to this topic

[mamagirl]

I would really like to see Canada and the US move towards a more ethical approach to this problem. In some other country's (i believe the UK and Aus. are 2 of them) it is illegal to feed live animals and it is illegal for a pet store to offer extreme deals on PEW (Pink Eyed White aka. Albino) rats or mice. 'feeder' animals are only available pre-killed (humanely) and frozen and there is no chance of them suffering or injuring the snake or reptile. Also because they are pre-killed and frozen they are kept in a freezer where only people who are looking to buy them will see them, and we don't have to feel awful everytime we see them.

Most snakes and reptiles will eat pre-killed, although some take longer to adjust than others. Domesticaly bred ones should be raised on pre-killed and therefor should never have a problem (unfortunetly a lot of breeders disagree with me). The only cases i'v personaly heard of where the snake or reptile refused food to the point where it's strongly affected it's health (and some have died) is when they are wild caught, and i personaly believe that wild caught 'pets' should be illegal.

So i think the only way to combat the issue altogether is to approach law makers to change the laws so that 'live feeding' and sale of live animals for feed is illegal.

Oh and i still think snakes and herpes are neat animals. I respect their biological needs and if one was in my possesion i would have no problem feeding it (pre-killed ofcourse), it's unlikely that'll ever happen though because i prefer 'cuddly' pets.

Off topic; i have a friend who owns a HUGE Dwarf Caiman. He keeps it in a giant pen in the middle of his living room. It is the scariest 'pet' i'v ever met. Anything moves near it's cage and it rushes out of the water at it with it's mouth open, i could never ever own an animal like that *shudders*.

Caiman pic (not my friend's Caiman just from the net);

Edited by mamagirl, 16 February 2005 - 10:47 AM.

[Baby_Dwarf_hamster]

i cant say I disagree im sad little mice are eaten msot the time but then again i care about snakes dearly as one of my favorite animals thoguh they are a threat to our little friends.

ooohhhh caiman how cute!

(Post edited by Nelson, Please dont double post! )

Edited by Nelson, 16 February 2005 - 04:56 PM.

[Shayla]

I know this is a contriversial subject, and I would never have a snake for just that reason. (Whe I was younger a boy brought his snake for show and tell and fed it a mouse and I ran out of the room crying.) But snakes are animals, and they have as much of a right to eat as mice and hammies do. It's not their fault that they're built to eat mice.

[Hannah]

Like shark, Snakes eat on "sick" animals

Nature was designed well (though it is harsh), the sick animals are killed quickly before they suffer too much, they also do not mutilate the snakes. In captivity however healthy animals are terrified as they try despritly to escape (unlike sick ones that are restrained and killed quicky, much more so than if they were to slowly die of illness or starvation), and the snakes who are just trying to eat end up with painful injuries (and many times end up dying of infection or being euthanised). There is a difference between being out in the open with a sick animal and trapped in a cage with a live healthy one (with very sharp teeth). I prefer rodents to reptiles but you can't help feeling sorry for the poor snakes who get those awful injuries (I can't imagine how much that hurts, poor snakes).

[Kelly_Bear]

dunno... just my personal opinion, but i really don't get the mentality that wants to buy a giant snake, stick him in a tank where all he can do is just lie there under the heat lamp

thats basically what they do..unless they are hungry.then they're wild!
but they do need a humane cage..



prekilled rodents are always the best way to go.it takes away the stress for the rodent (not having to be suffocated by a snake,but instead having it quick & most of the time it doesnt even know its coming)
and for the snake.rodents have self defense.if the snake isnt hungry,then the rodent will most likely bite/scratch the snake,often making it scared of eating any more.
freezing is also healthy.any viruses or parasites that the rodents might have need to be killed off before fed to the snake.

i think whacking them on the head is best (im not educated on this though ) the CO₂ takes a while to suffocate them & makes them suffer :( at least with a big whack on the head they cant feel anything after & they are instantly gone.

contrary to popular opinion,snakes are really gentle & sweet animals.they eat rodents,but thats how it is.noone has found an alternate diet that is safe yet
sadly,people think snakes are evil & mean creatures just becuase they eat rodents.

but i really dont like how petshops give feeder rodents an uncomfortable life just becuause they will be sold soon as snakefood.every animal deserves as good of a life as we can provide for them,snake food or not.

[The Hawk]

I don't really disagree with feeder mice. When people buy pets, they try to make the pets comfortable, by mimicing their natural environment in their cage. Mice are what snakes would eat in the wild, and it is only natural for snakes to kill their own prey. Just think: its like people eating cow or chicken. If there weren't companies that killed the meat for us, we would also kill our own prey. Some animals are at the bottom of the food chain, and were put on earth by God for other animals to get food from.

[SouthPaw]

Well...I don't agree too much with the whole "natural" environment thing. If you kept everything natural and as nature intended it to be, we wouldn't have pets. A natural environment for our hamsters would be out in a desert, not in a cage.

The animals we keep are domesticated, and most of the "wildness" in them is being bred out. If we were to find a wild hamster and stick him in the cage, he would probably go a bit crazy. He wouldn't know how to drink water from a bottle. So, through domestication hamsters have adapted to that-- just how snakes could adapt to eating prekilled.

Personally I would never be able to do it, but I don't think feeding rodents to snakes is bad at all. I just don't see why you "need" to put the rodent through that terror, and run the risk of your snake getting hurt or killed.

[hammy_fan]

hmmm... i wonder what ppl would think if somebody decided they wanted to keep a live tiger, or other larger carnivore, and fed this animal dogs and other smaller animals? why would this be any different?

I live in the country and people we know own 1 tiger!! They also have like 5 or 6 huge turky farms that each hold like 20 000+ Turkeys or chickens each. So the tiger gets all the Sick or dead chickens (or turkeys). They also say that they feed it road kill, My moms boy friend once haad a cougar, (his name was bomar and he hung himself, this happened when he was chained up outside one day, he ran round a tree and jumped on a branch and then tryed to jump off the other side but the chain wasnt long enuf.....) Well he was fed dry and canned dog food, and caned sardines...LOL, well, my point is that you dont need to feed a snake live mice, i bet that if you left a dead mouse in the cage he would eventually eat it...
Hammy_fan

[Janice]

I'm with misspixy. Yes, snakes are carnivores and their purpose in the wild is to control the population of rodents and some other animals by preying on the weaker or older animals who are not alert enough to escape. In fact, they are meant to be in the wild, they cannot be domesticated at all (Ever seen snakes bonding with their owners? Guess not. Most of time, I only heard of snakes bitting their owners. Goes to show that snakes are NOT meant to be kept as pets in the 1st place). And European Black bear hamster had made a very good point about a healthy mice suffering more than a sick one and injuring the snake in the process.

Keeping snakes are pets is WRONG in the first place. Those owners are torturing the snakes by depriving the snakes of their natural habitat and forcing them to be confined in a small tank where they can hardly move. To make things worse, they are performing more curelty on those innocent "feeder" mice. For goodness sake, they are destroying lives with their own hands by feeding the mice to the snakes and those mice are not killed by laws of nature (as I had mentioned, the weaker and older ones will get prey on) but by the unlucky fate that they got chosen by some heartless individual to use as feeders.

Keeping snakes or exotic wild animals as pets not only drastically reduce the quality of living conditions of those animals, innocent lives are taken via the unnatural way and there is no bonding and playing with such "pets". It really makes one wondered why in the world will anyone want to keep a wild animal as a pet. The only reason: For SHOWING OFF. These kind of people are NOT real animal lovers, they are basically cruel people at heart.

I went to some pets forums before, and I noticed that most pet lovers are really nice and sweet people, a great example is the HH members. But that is not the case with those exotic pets owners, they are mean and offensive. I don't think people like that are true animal lovers.

Back to the topic, I think the better way to stop the selling of feeder mice is to make it illegal to keep exotic animals as pets. That's the case in Singapore where those exotic pets owners do not dare to anyhow show off their pets and it is nice to see that some of them get caught and get punished by the law.

Edited by Janice, 17 February 2005 - 12:42 PM.

[Kelly_Bear]

Keeping snakes are pets is WRONG in the first place. Those owners are torturing the snakes by depriving the snakes of their natural habitat and forcing them to be confined in a small tank where they can hardly move.

...how is keeping a snake different than keeping say,a hamster?
its the same principle "taking the animal out of their natural habitat & forcing them to live in a cage"

Ever seen snakes bonding with their owners? Guess not. Most of time, I only heard of snakes bitting their owners.

people keep fish & they dont bond with people,whats so different with snakes?
dogs bite sometimes too.so do hamsters.they are still lovingly kept as pets.
even hamsters have GIANT reputation of biting.yet we still love them & keep them as pets

most of the time the snake mistakes the owner's hand with food when it bites,due to the owner's lack of brains (i.e. feeding without gloves or hemostats)

The only reason: For SHOWING OFF. These kind of people are NOT real animal lovers, they are basically cruel people at heart.

snake owners arent 'showing off',all pets need love & care.
i know other snake owners as well,and most are the biggest animal lovers you can find!lots of them are involved in rescues.. they take in unwanted pets& love & care for them.




i dont see how people can be cruel for taking in an animal.here,they are perfectly legal (might not be in all of the united states ) & make great pets!they'll wrap around your neck & sit for hours if you let them! almost like cuddling.

yes,its sad that they have to eat the poor mice,but thats how they are.snakes arent for everybody ;)

~Kelly_Bear
a snake & rodent lover

Edited by Kelly_Bear, 17 February 2005 - 06:02 PM.

[dusty]

Now, I just wanna point out that most (all?) snakes may be illegal as pets in SG but it's not in many overseas countries. I'm sure there are all kinds of animals who are genuinely loved and kept by people all over the world.

The important thing is to treat your pet right and be mindful that other animals/pets are not harmed in an inhumane way in the process.

The maturity of the pet owner plays a big role.

[Hannah]

Just think: its like people eating cow or chicken. If there weren't companies that killed the meat for us, we would also kill our own prey.

Actually people would have to eat something made of plants (healthier and much less cruel). I have never eaten meat in my life and I do not have as many problems as people at school (cholesteral and fear hormones are not healthy). Eating meat is not nessary it only a reason to kill animals for human pleasure, serial killers get pleasure from killing too but it does not make it right. If people had to kill their on food you would see more vegitarians/vegans, most people try to avoid thinking about the suffering involved with meat; they would not be so eager to eat it if the animals death was not hidden from them behind slaugter house doors. People get very defensive if you mention you do not eat meat, and with good reason.

[panther]

Keeping snakes are pets is WRONG in the first place. Those owners are torturing the snakes by depriving the snakes of their natural habitat and forcing them to be confined in a small tank where they can hardly move.

I agree fully with what KB said. Any animal that's kept in a cage is being 'deprived' of something or other.

The only reason: For SHOWING OFF. These kind of people are NOT real animal lovers, they are basically cruel people at heart.

I'm going to be honest here. This comment made me clench my fists with anger and I had to take a couple of deep breaths to calm down. I want to have a snake. I plan on getting one when I grow up. So now that makes me a NON animal lover? A cruel person? So my days and weeks and months of volunteer work mean nothing? Me being a vegetarian is just clashing with how cruel I am for wanting a snake?

{caaaaaaaalllllmmm doooooooowwwnnnnnn...}

Please keep an open mind about these things, Janice. ;)

[hammy_fan]

snakes are crulle, and if you dont like that they eat mice, then dont keep snakes, its as simple as that
Hammy_fan

[panther]

snakes are crulle, and if you dont like that they eat mice, then dont keep snakes, its as simple as that

Snakes aren't cruel... they just try to live...