184 replies to this topic

[EAHams]

I'm curious about a couple things.

 

First, when the protein/fat/fiber calculations are done in a given food mix, whether it's a lab block type or a seed mix, it's taking into account the entirety of the bag.  What I mean by that is, when you're using really specific calculations (gram scales) to determine how much of food A to mix with food B to get desired protein level C, you can't know which of the seeds/grains/etc. in your mix are contributing X amount of protein. fat, or fiber.  You also can't determine with utter certainty when you feed a variety mix which ratio of those bits your hamster is eating.  So my curiosity is: why agonize over the "perfect" complementary mix?

 

Next, what's the definition of "filler"?  Soybean hulls are the most common culprit labeled as a filler, but they're added to the foods for herbivores and insectivores for a specific reason: fiber.  They also have 11% protein, which is not insignificant when considering some of these diets have a total protein level in the low teens.

 

Soybean Hulls Nutritional Content (100% Dry Matter Basis)

Dry Matter: 91%

Total Digestible Nutrients: 78%

Crude Protein: 11%

Crude Fat: 2.2%

Crude Fiber: 39.6%

Acid Detergent Fiber: 50%

Calcium: 0.49%

Phosphorous: 0.18%

                           

(data from West Virginia University)

 

Another thing to keep in mind is that a hamster's natural diet would consist of a lot of low-value grasses and seeds.  It's part of why they stockpile so heavily.

 

Questions people should keep in mind when examining any food source so analytically:  What's the calcium to phosphorous ratio?  Are the vitamins and minerals actually balanced for my animal?  In a seed type mix, how evenly spread are the nutrients, specifically fat?  How palatable is the food as both a whole, and as individual ingredients?

 

When we examine an ingredients list, we like to take away the three big values: Protein, Fat, and Fiber.  We should always bear in mind that a whole heckuva a lot can go wrong, nutritionally speaking, even with those three values "perfect".

 

The key, in my mind, is variety.  Mix up brands, types, sources.  Add in veggies, fruits, additional protein sources such as mealworms, bits of chicken, egg or fish.   The goal is to not *always* use mealworms, or *always* use romaine; individual items always have strengths and weaknesses.  Spinach, for example, contains an incredible level of oxalic acid. Oxalic acid bound with minerals such as calcium forms a salt known as an oxalate. Oxalic acid interferes with the absorption of calcium in foods because of the binding, making the calcium content of spinach (among other veggies) largely unusable.  And yet, spinach is one of the more popular veggie treats fed not only to hams, but guinea pigs and even herbivorous reptiles.  Oxalates also contribute to the formation of kidney stones, which is something people with diabetic hams (whose kidneys are already working hard) should be aware of.

 

Does this mean we shouldn't feed spinach to our pets?  Of course not.  It means we shouldn't feed it every day, just as we shouldn't use mealworms as a sole protein supplement, or the exact same combination of hamster foods every time.  Those low value foods may well have an abundance of nutrients some of the high value foods lack; do you think the manufacturing companies don't know what we consumers are looking for as "good" in the ingredients list?  Don't underestimate the pull of marketing vs. actually good.

 

I'm not an expert, and that leaves me with a lot of questions with regards to my pets' nutrition.  I ask questions of experts when I have them, and I get good answers from someone who has no vested interest in where I spend my money.  Asking the companies that make your foods will potentially give you a skewed answer about what's "good", of course, but also the people you speak to in either customer service or marketing most likely cannot tell you why an ingredient was placed in their food.  They pay scientists for that, and scientists aren't answering the phones.

[DwarfHammyMum]

Another Hamster mix you can buy in the UK:

 

Bestpets Hamster Food 

 

Ingredients

Pellets (Wheatfeed, Grass Pellet, Oats, Soya Beans, Whole Sunflower Seeds, Sugar Beet, Di-calcium Phosphate, Salt, Molasses, Vitamins and Minerals, Soya Oil), Flaked Peas, Wheat, Extruded Wheat (Wheat, Wheatfeed, Maize, Soya Oil), Flaked Beans, Maize, Oats, Flaked Maize, Locust Beans, Peanuts, Sunflower Seeds.

Typical Analysis Crude Protein 17.0% Crude Fibres 7.2% Crude Oil & Fats 8.7% Crude Ash 4.9% Vitamins Vitamin D3 (E671) 20000 i.u./Kg Trace Elements Iron (E1) 12mg/Kg

 

Link to website:

 

https://www.best-pets.co.uk/trade/hamsters/hamster-food.php

 

It is only produced in 15kg bags but sometimes you can find pet shops selling it in less weight bagged up from the big bag.,  

[Ilovehamsters224]

I thought I was looking at the unsuitable food, and I saw my hamster's food. I was actually looking at the high grade food. I am so relieved.

[Platinum Pets]

I didn't see Oxbow Essentials on this list, but there were other Oxbow products. Is Oxbow considered high grade in general? 

[Taxonomist]

I'm curious about a couple things.

 

First, when the protein/fat/fiber calculations are done in a given food mix, whether it's a lab block type or a seed mix, it's taking into account the entirety of the bag.  What I mean by that is, when you're using really specific calculations (gram scales) to determine how much of food A to mix with food B to get desired protein level C, you can't know which of the seeds/grains/etc. in your mix are contributing X amount of protein. fat, or fiber.  You also can't determine with utter certainty when you feed a variety mix which ratio of those bits your hamster is eating.  So my curiosity is: why agonize over the "perfect" complementary mix?

 

Sorry this took me so long to respond to - I only saw this post within the past few days.

 

You are correct that a mix is never going to be 100% perfect.  Hamsters are going to pick and choose, ingredients are going to settle to the bottom and be unevenly distributed.

 

However, I do believe that mixes need to compliment each other.  You can't increase the protein of a 15% protein seed mix by adding a 14% protein seed mix to it.  You can't lower the fat of a 7% fat mix by adding another 7% fat mix.

 

Next, what's the definition of "filler"?  Soybean hulls are the most common culprit labeled as a filler, but they're added to the foods for herbivores and insectivores for a specific reason: fiber.  They also have 11% protein, which is not insignificant when considering some of these diets have a total protein level in the low teens.

 

 

 

You are correct about soybean hulls, and I have removed all references to them being filler.

 

I will also begin researching calcium : phosphorus of these foods and report back with my findings.

[AdriannaNoel]

Hi! I'm new to this forum. I know the two foods I have are not the best but it's what I can get for now. I picked out a very large young teddy bear long haired Syrian female from petco and am going to get her Wednesday. The two foods I have are the oxbow pellets and the vitakraft vita smart complete nutrition. Could anyone please help me in tablespoons or teaspoons, how much I should feed her and how often? Thanks in advance! I am only 13 and this is my first hamster so I'm sorry if any of this sounds dumb, I just would really like to the best for her that I can!

[pinkbamboo]

Hi. I don't see this on the list but is versele laga complete hamster and gerbil ok? Its white in package.

https://www.google.com/search?q=versele+laga+hamster+complete&client=ms-android-asus&biw=360&bih=559&prmd=sivn&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjfsdHF9rzLAhWBA44KHTTpB04Q_AUIBygC#imgrc=VSfQnvvkwme9OM%3A

Edited by pinkbamboo, 13 March 2016 - 02:29 PM.

[DwarfHammyMum]

I'm curious about a couple things.

 

First, when the protein/fat/fiber calculations are done in a given food mix, whether it's a lab block type or a seed mix, it's taking into account the entirety of the bag.  What I mean by that is, when you're using really specific calculations (gram scales) to determine how much of food A to mix with food B to get desired protein level C, you can't know which of the seeds/grains/etc. in your mix are contributing X amount of protein. fat, or fiber.  You also can't determine with utter certainty when you feed a variety mix which ratio of those bits your hamster is eating.  So my curiosity is: why agonize over the "perfect" complementary mix?

 

Next, what's the definition of "filler"?  Soybean hulls are the most common culprit labeled as a filler, but they're added to the foods for herbivores and insectivores for a specific reason: fiber.  They also have 11% protein, which is not insignificant when considering some of these diets have a total protein level in the low teens.

 

Soybean Hulls Nutritional Content (100% Dry Matter Basis)

Dry Matter: 91%

Total Digestible Nutrients: 78%

Crude Protein: 11%

Crude Fat: 2.2%

Crude Fiber: 39.6%

Acid Detergent Fiber: 50%

Calcium: 0.49%

Phosphorous: 0.18%

                           

(data from West Virginia University)

 

Another thing to keep in mind is that a hamster's natural diet would consist of a lot of low-value grasses and seeds.  It's part of why they stockpile so heavily.

 

Questions people should keep in mind when examining any food source so analytically:  What's the calcium to phosphorous ratio?  Are the vitamins and minerals actually balanced for my animal?  In a seed type mix, how evenly spread are the nutrients, specifically fat?  How palatable is the food as both a whole, and as individual ingredients?

 

When we examine an ingredients list, we like to take away the three big values: Protein, Fat, and Fiber.  We should always bear in mind that a whole heckuva a lot can go wrong, nutritionally speaking, even with those three values "perfect".

 

The key, in my mind, is variety.  Mix up brands, types, sources.  Add in veggies, fruits, additional protein sources such as mealworms, bits of chicken, egg or fish.   The goal is to not *always* use mealworms, or *always* use romaine; individual items always have strengths and weaknesses.  Spinach, for example, contains an incredible level of oxalic acid. Oxalic acid bound with minerals such as calcium forms a salt known as an oxalate. Oxalic acid interferes with the absorption of calcium in foods because of the binding, making the calcium content of spinach (among other veggies) largely unusable.  And yet, spinach is one of the more popular veggie treats fed not only to hams, but guinea pigs and even herbivorous reptiles.  Oxalates also contribute to the formation of kidney stones, which is something people with diabetic hams (whose kidneys are already working hard) should be aware of.

 

Does this mean we shouldn't feed spinach to our pets?  Of course not.  It means we shouldn't feed it every day, just as we shouldn't use mealworms as a sole protein supplement, or the exact same combination of hamster foods every time.  Those low value foods may well have an abundance of nutrients some of the high value foods lack; do you think the manufacturing companies don't know what we consumers are looking for as "good" in the ingredients list?  Don't underestimate the pull of marketing vs. actually good.

 

I'm not an expert, and that leaves me with a lot of questions with regards to my pets' nutrition.  I ask questions of experts when I have them, and I get good answers from someone who has no vested interest in where I spend my money.  Asking the companies that make your foods will potentially give you a skewed answer about what's "good", of course, but also the people you speak to in either customer service or marketing most likely cannot tell you why an ingredient was placed in their food.  They pay scientists for that, and scientists aren't answering the phones.

 

Also Corn is called a filler on this forum but it is not a filler it has been put into the mix because of its's own merits which are from Wiki:

 

Sweetcorn, yellow, raw
(seeds only) Nutritional value per 100 g (3.5 oz) Energy 360 kJ (86 kcal)  

Carbohydrates

18.7 g

Starch 5.7 g Sugars 6.26 g Dietary fiber 2 g  

Fat

1.35 g

 

Protein

3.27 g

Tryptophan 0.023 g Threonine 0.129 g Isoleucine 0.129 g Leucine 0.348 g Lysine 0.137 g Methionine 0.067 g Cystine 0.026 g Phenylalanine 0.150 g Tyrosine 0.123 g Valine 0.185 g Arginine 0.131 g Histidine 0.089 g Alanine 0.295 g Aspartic acid 0.244 g Glutamic acid 0.636 g Glycine 0.127 g Proline 0.292 g Serine 0.153 g   Vitamins Vitamin A equiv.

lutein zeaxanthin

(1%)

9 μg

644 μg

Thiamine (B1)

(13%)

0.155 mg Riboflavin (B2)

(5%)

0.055 mg Niacin (B3)

(12%)

1.77 mg

Pantothenic acid (B5)

(14%)

0.717 mg Vitamin B6

(7%)

0.093 mg Folate (B9)

(11%)

42 μg Vitamin C

(8%)

6.8 mg   Minerals Iron

(4%)

0.52 mg Magnesium

(10%)

37 mg Manganese

(8%)

0.163 mg Phosphorus

(13%)

89 mg Potassium

(6%)

270 mg Zinc

(5%)

0.46 mg   Other constituents Water 75.96 g

 

People say it's a cheap filler when in fact having priced up huge amounts of hamster ingredients no single ingredient is cheap they all are very cheap when bulk brought as commercial company's do. The only ingredient that was slightly more expensive out of all the ingredients you find in hamster food mealworms were one pence or two pence more.

 

I don't know where the myth corn is cheap came from but I can assure you all hamster ingredients in commercial mixes are cheap

[Taxonomist]

Also Corn is called a filler on this forum but it is not a filler it has been put into the mix because of its's own merits which are from Wiki:

 

Sweetcorn, yellow, raw
...Water 75.96 g

 

People say it's a cheap filler when in fact having priced up huge amounts of hamster ingredients no single ingredient is cheap they all are very cheap when bulk brought as commercial company's do. The only ingredient that was slightly more expensive out of all the ingredients you find in hamster food mealworms were one pence or two pence more.

 

I don't know where the myth corn is cheap came from but I can assure you all hamster ingredients in commercial mixes are cheap

 

The nutritional information you have listed there is for sweetcorn (note that it's ~75% water), which is very different from the corn in hamster mixes.  Sweetcorn is quite a bit more nutritious than dent corn, which is the dry, hard corn in hamster mixes.  

 

The reason corn is considered filler is not because it's cheap - it's because it's pretty nutrient-poor.  Dent corn is largely starch and lacks any real significant nutrition.  Sure, it has some traces of vitamins and minerals, but it really isn't of much benefit other than straight-up carbs.  

 

It's not that it's a 100% terrible thing - but the issue is that some foods have a ton of corn in them.  If the hamster selectively feeds on corn, that means little nutrition.  Choosing a lower-corn food has advantages, and it does seem to follow a bit that foods sky-high in corn tend to be bad in other ways.

Edited by Taxonomist, 05 April 2016 - 03:52 AM.

[BlossomingPets]

I just contacted Beaphar about their food, asking if I could have a full ingredient list Hopefully they'll report back to me in the next few days. If they do, and the food isn't too bad, then I'll be able to save lots of money on shipping from the UK, and I'll also make sure to report back here to let you all know my findings

Edited by BlossomingPets, 06 April 2016 - 12:15 AM.

[DwarfHammyMum]

I just contacted Beaphar about their food, asking if I could have a full ingredient list Hopefully they'll report back to me in the next few days. If they do, and the food isn't too bad, then I'll be able to save lots of money on shipping from the UK, and I'll also make sure to report back here to let you all know my findings

I've Got

 

Care+ Dwarf Hamster: expiry 08/17
Crude Protein – 20.5%; Crude Fibre – 9.6%; Crude Oils and Fats – 5.9%
 

 

After lots of searching I found:

 

Beaphar Care + Dwarf Hamster

Ingredients: cereals, ingredients of vegetable origin, meat and animal products, seeds, minerals, plant extracts Bałków, yeast, Yucca schidigera, algae (spirulina 0.01%)

Analysis : Crude protein 20.5%, crude fiber 9.6%, crude oil and fat 5.9%, crude ash 5.2%, moisture content 10.8%, calcium (Ca) 0.91%, magnesium (Mg ) 0.22%, sodium (Na) 0.21% potassium (K) 1.01%, phosphorus (P) 0.69%.

 

Vitamins and trace elements: (content kg) wit. A 14,200 IU vitamin. D3 2,000 IU, vit. E 67.5 mg; Cu 6.6 mg; Fe 44.6 mg; And 6 mg; Mn 11.1 mg; Zn 27.9 mg

 

 

Beaphar Dwarf Hamster Musli

Composition:
extruded wheat, high quality alfalfa, corn, beans, peas, high-quality soybeans, wheat, sunflower seeds, oats, peanuts, carob beans, turkey, extruded alfalfa, carrots.

Edited by DwarfHammyMum, 06 April 2016 - 08:29 PM.

[LittleDwarfHammy]

Thanks so much for this! So is it possible that my past winter white hamster had died from the 8 in 1 ecotrition food because of the garlic and leeks? We figured it was from old age because he was about 2 years old. Thanks!

[LittleDwarfHammy]

Will adding mealworms to the vitakraft vitanature make it good to eat? If so, how many mealworms? If not, what kind of food is good to mix with it to get more protein?

[Sausage Villan]

Thanks so much for the info.

I copied it and made it into a pdf to have on my phone next time i'm out and about and need food for skittles.

unaltered in narrow margins and single spacing ...... 67 pages!

good work my friend thank you for your hard work

[ChloeJ]

Is the Carefresh Complete Nutrition food good for my dwarf hamsters?